Forum:The Pub
__NEWSECTIONLINK__ Welcome to the pub! This is the place where everything about Tagog can be discussed. Elections Today the Tagogese National Elections will take place. As we don't have any other forum for that and I am too lazy to create one the elections will be done here. All citizens can run for the elections, and similarly all citizens can vote. The elections start now and end tomorrow in the evening (Tagogese time). 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:18, March 3, 2013 (UTC) Candidates ;VOTING CLOSED Kanto Qyto # 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:18, March 3, 2013 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:57, March 3, 2013 (UTC) (A) # —TimeMaster (talk • ) 02:10, March 5, 2013 (UTC) Vincent Ndengu # 77topaz (talk) 08:40, March 3, 2013 (UTC) ;VOTING CLOSED What are the citizenship requirements? 77topaz (talk) 08:27, March 3, 2013 (UTC) :See here. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:31, March 3, 2013 (UTC) :You have only 26 edits. :P 77topaz (talk) 08:32, March 3, 2013 (UTC) Can we hold better elections? A forum page where everyone can add his name. Wabba The I (talk) 10:41, March 3, 2013 (UTC) That would be good, Wabba, but I'm not sure 4kant would like that. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:21, March 4, 2013 (UTC) I will get 50 edits soon. :P —TimeMaster (talk • ) 02:10, March 5, 2013 (UTC) I hope you realise that 4kant briefly blocks people who vote without being citizens. :P 77topaz (talk) 02:42, March 5, 2013 (UTC) @TM:You're blocked for 30 seconds :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 06:41, March 5, 2013 (UTC) Why did you close the elections? Wabba, Happy and Viva haven't voted yet. :P 77topaz (talk) 07:10, March 5, 2013 (UTC) The original planning was to close them the day they started. But you're right, so I opened them again :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:15, March 5, 2013 (UTC) The end has been delayed for almost a week, and nobody's voted last days, so I closed the elections. Kanto Qyto won the elections with 75% of the votes. Vincent Ndengu got 25% of the votes. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 10:15, March 10, 2013 (UTC) :And what's the conclusion? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10:45, March 10, 2013 (UTC) ::That I still am the president è :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 13:20, March 10, 2013 (UTC) :::Okay :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 06:18, March 11, 2013 (UTC) Burenian Request for Revenge Dear Citizens of Tagog, The Lovian Minister of Commerce Dave Leskromento has been recorded saying that Burenia is boring, which of course made all Burenian citizens very angry. The Burenian government has therefor been planning some kind of revenge attack, and hereby Burenia officially requests Tagog to help Burenia in an eventual war between Burenia and Lovia. Sàkar à Lóvia, 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:36, April 22, 2013 (UTC) :Your valediction here is amazing. --Semyon 23:41, April 11, 2015 (UTC) ::Thanks for pointing out the typo :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 08:37, April 18, 2015 (UTC) Reintroduce torture in Tagog In order to be able to fully extract from our civilians who oppose the mighty president Kanto Qyto, we should reintroduce several torture methods :P I propose the Chongchi Lau Deng Torture Act: # If the president or colonel want to use torture methods, they may, or appoint someone to do so. # The approved methods of torture are: rack, spanish donkey, iron chair, dunking, live burial, boiling, thumbscrew, pendulum, impalement, and sawing. Any remarks? :P --OuWTB 11:30, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Let's have a one-day referendum on that, in which all citizens are allowed to vote, to keep it democratic è :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:04, November 10, 2013 (UTC) What is happening in Tagog (particularly this) is wrong and should stop now. Do not think that Lovia or Brunant will ignore Tagog's actions, and let these horrible breaches of human rights go unnoticed. Every person should have the right to voice their opinion, whatever it may be, and they should not be punished for speaking their mind. Open Eyes and Ears for Tagog will go ahead, and it will be a peaceful demonstration against Tagog's appalling human rights record. Come to think of it, I may even create a character here to fight for better human rights in Tagog. Frijoles333 Marcel Cebara TALK 16:19, November 10, 2013 (UTC) :You wanna end up dead just like Ndengu? You're own your way to the coffin friend :P --Chongchi Lau Deng 18:18, November 10, 2013 (UTC) ::Do you truly believe the lies your regime cooks up. HORTON11: • 20:25, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Ndengu is not dead! The time has come for the people to know the truth! I will create a character to protest against your horrific regime! And I don't care if you pretend that I'm dead! Frijoles333 Marcel Cebara TALK 20:27, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Oos, who are you even threatening? A Lovian citizen? Frijoles doesn't even have a Tagogese character. 77topaz (talk) 20:28, November 10, 2013 (UTC) Topaz I was just saying that I might make a character here :) Frijoles333 Marcel Cebara TALK 20:29, November 10, 2013 (UTC) If you don't, then he'd be making a death threat against a Lovian citizen. That, if anything could, should inspire diplomatic action from Lovia. :P 77topaz (talk) 20:30, November 10, 2013 (UTC) @Frijoles: by saying that Ndengu isn't dead you ignored the fact that the government is always right, so you're blocked for twelve hours :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 07:02, November 11, 2013 (UTC) @77tåpas: It's Chongchi Lau Deng, not Oos :P And if I have to threaten a Lovian citizen, so be it. The guy has nothing to do with internal Tagogese affairs. We have a different culture, a better one; just face it :P --Chongchi Lau Deng 08:01, November 11, 2013 (UTC) VOTING CLOSED ;Pro : # 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:04, November 10, 2013 (UTC) # --OuWTB 16:14, November 10, 2013 (UTC) :P # ... ;Contra : # ... VOTING CLOSED Okay, 100% of the votes were pro and 0% of the votes were contra, so the proposal is accepted! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 10:45, November 11, 2013 (UTC) NDENGU IS ALIVE!!! Queen Helene hosted Tagogese activist Vincent Ndengu in the Royal Palace in Koningstad on 11 November 2013 to discuss several subject on his home country of Tagog. :How can you be so sure it's Ndengu :P --Chongchi Lau Deng 07:22, November 12, 2013 (UTC) ::Firstly, he does have the Tagogese flag on his lapel and secondly, we wouldn't post a picture of a fake Ndengu impersonar, so you got the real deal with Her Majesty there. HORTON11: • 15:03, November 12, 2013 (UTC) :::It's rather obvious that that picture is made by someone with bad photoshopping skills though :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:38, November 12, 2013 (UTC) :::The quality has been compromised by file-size compression. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:08, November 12, 2013 (UTC) ::::The picture quality ain't the best, but at least we got one and you don't. HORTON11: • 14:20, November 13, 2013 (UTC) :::::The quality is normally equally good - or bad - everywhere on the picture. On this picture however the quality is significantly worse at some places :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:16, November 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Well the paint scale-down option is not so much scaling but making the sides unevenly shorter so the figures do seem a little squeezed. And manual scaling is just worse. HORTON11: • 16:56, November 13, 2013 (UTC) :::::::That still doesn't explain why the queen's arm looks so fake though :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:39, November 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::Cosmetic touch-ups. It's her real arm though. HORTON11: • 18:00, November 13, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::She got a prosthetic left arm? :o --OuWTB 11:13, November 14, 2013 (UTC) An open letter to the people of Tagog Hello people of Tagog, I am just an anonymous IP, but I can say for sure that you know me well from another wiki (or two). Ndengu is alive! Stop listening to your corrupt government's lies, they only stand to intimidate you. But listen, I am here to defend your human rights, and ensure that your children and grandchildren can live a happy and peaceful life. Ndengu will also continue to fight for the cause; your government may be able to kill him, but they can never kill his spirit or what he stands for. Don't give up your fight, for the whole world is with you. Yours sincerely, An anonymous user Government of Tagog take note The government of Pintona, in the name of HM Queen Elizabeth II expresses their concern for the people of Tagog because of the actions of their government to kill their own citizens who want democracy and rights. Pintona will work with other wikinations to denounce Tagog and take action. ::Dr. Gilbert Warren, Prime Minister. 04:52, November 12, 2013 (UTC) Ndengu is alive? No, he's not. The consensus among users on this wiki is that he is dead, therefore, he is dead. You guys don't seem to understand the way wikinations work. :( --Semyon 22:25, November 19, 2013 (UTC) :Ndengu is dead indeed. --OuWTB 09:50, November 20, 2013 (UTC) ::The consensus among Ndengu and tose who have spoken to him the past few days state otherwise (and how do you explain a dead man buying an apartment in Koningstad?) HORTON11: • 15:29, November 20, 2013 (UTC) :::I hope you know the words "pretend", "lie" and "misspell" :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:59, November 20, 2013 (UTC) ::::I explain it as the authoritarianism of Brunant's admins and their insistence on interfering with an issue on another wiki where consensus has already been reached. :( --Semyon 20:14, November 21, 2013 (UTC) Maybe we should write on this wiki that the guy who founded Brunant is still alive and has fled to Tagog because he didn't like the way his nation had developed many hundred years later. That would - of course - make it true. But we respect the decisions of the Brunant wiki community to deadify key figures in their history, and would like that to be reciprocated. --Semyon 20:18, November 21, 2013 (UTC) :I fully agree. --OuWTB 07:55, November 22, 2013 (UTC) ::So do I :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 12:44, November 22, 2013 (UTC) :::You did not create Ndengu, so it's up to him to decide. You did, though, create Mr. Qyto, so feel free to "deadify him" at your earliest convenience. HORTON11: • 16:41, November 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::I got some bad news for you. See the Jan Zwagerman discussion on Lovia. At the time, Dimitri ruled in favour of Bucu's decision to kill my character. --OuWTB 18:53, November 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::What about the "I leave it up to the author to decide when this person dies" that he said? And that was different, you couldn't care less about Zwagerman (as opposed to Ilava) and you went along, while Ndengu is Topaz's main character here. HORTON11: • 15:48, November 23, 2013 (UTC) :::::I was pretty much forced to go along, just like Tåpas is forced to go along too now :P --OuWTB 15:59, November 23, 2013 (UTC) :::::Like Horton said, Zwagerman didn't have as much "importance" as Ndengu (he wasn't your main character), and you could have chosen to have him survive. And, at any rate, just because Dimi seemingly did something bad doesn't mean you should. :P 77topaz (talk) 08:41, November 25, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Sorry, consistency is important; gotta stick to that. Also, sometimes, things in life don't work out the way you want, and that happened to have happened with Ndengu as well :P --OuWTB 17:33, November 25, 2013 (UTC) :::::::You're actually right in "things in life don't work out the way you want" for Ndengu. Now he has to live in Brunant and Southern Arc instead of Tagog where he might've wanted. And you heard the man, he spoke up and vouched for himself. And if you still refuse to believe he's alive, read his official biography. HORTON11: • 18:22, November 25, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::As Ndengu is Tagogese, his official biography is located on the Tagogese wiki. --OuWTB 07:10, November 26, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::In case you aren't aware of it, Horton, determining the course of events in other wikinations makes less sense than a potato tree speaking French. Therefore the Burnant wiki shouldn't do so :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:59, November 26, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::Well if you don't allow Ndengu to correct the facts on his own bio here, he had to move elsewhere and correct the what you added to vandalize his page here. And how would it make you feel if I vandalized your page to say that you were killed by a car bomb?? And 4kant, Brunant is not determining events in Tagog, Ndengu is only trying to explain his life facts as they are. It may be a crime to speak the truth in Tagog, but in Brunant we're all for it. HORTON11: • 17:45, November 26, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::::It's not a crime to speak the truth in Tagog, but lying is though :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:47, November 27, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::::Well seeing as you equate with the truth with lying here, then it is. And also keep in mind that your so-called "truths" do not equal THE TRUTH. HORTON11: • 14:16, November 28, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::::::Keep in mind that yóúr so-called "truths" don't equal thé truth. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:51, November 28, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I don't know why Horton and Tapas fail to understand so badly, when you explained it so clearly. :'( --Semyon 16:05, January 12, 2014 (UTC) Poll Homosexuality should be illegal. Yes No Don't know --Chongchi Lau Deng 14:00, January 11, 2014 (UTC) : :o --Chongchi Lau Deng 10:42, January 12, 2014 (UTC) ::It seems homosexuality is going to be legal :o 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 12:04, January 12, 2014 (UTC) This poll is against all the principles of Tagogese democracy. First of all, how can we confirm that all those that voted in the poll were Tagogese citizens? Even worse, how do we confirm that those that voted are not members of TUMPH-blacklisted organizations? Finally, I'm not convinced that a law can be valid unless torture is involved somewhere; why would they have put in article 7 of the constitution otherwise? --Semyon 16:02, January 12, 2014 (UTC) :Let's first torture all homosexuals and then see if it's legal or not. Sounds democratic to me :P --Chongchi Lau Deng 06:11, January 13, 2014 (UTC) ::Assuming they insulted the president by being homosexual, there is nothing wrong with your plan :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:04, January 13, 2014 (UTC) :::Hahhaa, let's do this :P --OuWTB 09:18, January 14, 2014 (UTC) ::::Sure :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:51, January 14, 2014 (UTC) 2014 elections So, it's time for Federal Elections again :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:33, March 18, 2014 (UTC) A minor notice which might be relevant: it is still possible to run for these elections. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:34, March 18, 2014 (UTC) Candidates VOTING CLOSED Kanto Qyto & Chongchi Lau Deng # --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:33, March 18, 2014 (UTC) # --OuWTB 09:53, March 19, 2014 (UTC) # --Semyon 14:41, March 31, 2014 (UTC) # ... John Hilton # Wabba The I (talk) 18:27, March 18, 2014 (UTC) # 15:24, March 22, 2014 (UTC) # ... VOTING CLOSED Result So, as we finally have a majority for one of the candidates, the elections are closed! Of course our entire nation is delighted to hear that the CTP is supported by 100% of the Tagogese population and that Kanto Qyto remains our president! * Kanto Qyto and Chongchi Lau Deng got 60% of the votes, and have thus won the election. Qyto will remain the president, while Chongchi becomes vice-president. * John Hilton got 40% of the votes. --Kanto Qyto 12:35, April 1, 2014 (UTC) 2015 elections The month of March has come again, and with it the Presidential Elections. The elections will end on the fifth of March. Candidates VOTING CLOSED Kanto Qyto # --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:09, March 1, 2015 (UTC) # --OuWTB 06:11, March 2, 2015 (UTC) # --Semyon 20:30, March 3, 2015 (UTC) # Loyal Citizen 1 # Loyal Citizen 2 # Loyal Citizen 3 # Loyal Citizen 4 # Loyal Citizen 5 # Loyal Citizen 6 # Loyal Citizen 7 # Loyal Citizen 8 # Loyal Citizen 9 # Loyal Citizen 10 # ... VOTING CLOSED Result Our entire nation is delighted to hear that the great Kanto Qyto has won the elections and shall bless our beautiful islands with his rule for another year. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:22, March 5, 2015 (UTC) Elections I propose we have parliamentary elections. :P --Semyon 10:51, September 25, 2015 (UTC) :Too bad for you, Corn-on-the-Kob, you're now under scrutiny by the Ministry :P --'UnfazedEveryman' Annoy Me 10:52, September 25, 2015 (UTC) We'll have elections in March :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:55, September 25, 2015 (UTC) :I agree. :P I suggest we have elections now as well though, because I suspect this wiki will be totally inactive again by then. :P --Semyon 17:38, September 25, 2015 (UTC) ::That'd be in conflict with the constitution though :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:43, September 25, 2015 (UTC) :::In my interpretation, the constitution says the parliament is 'elected democratically each year in March', but that doesn't mean it can't also be elected at other times too. :P --Semyon 17:47, September 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::In that case I'll rephrase it :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:20, September 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::::SAKAR A TAGOG UnfazedEveryman Annoy Me 01:03, September 26, 2015 (UTC) Tumefurahi elections Sign up for the elections here, by adding one or more parties and the username. Any TUMPH registered party can stand. The text below should make it clear. --Semyon 18:37, September 26, 2015 (UTC) *Conservative Tagogese Party **User:Semyon *... *Party for Moderate Development **User:Semyon **... *Independent Tagog **User:TimeMaster **... *... Note: elections will be run on Sept. 30th by TUMPH, which will also assign seats. --Semyon 18:37, September 26, 2015 (UTC) :September 20 was six days ago :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:40, September 26, 2015 (UTC) ::I meant to press the key to the right of 2, which as you may know is 3. :P --Semyon 21:06, September 26, 2015 (UTC) :::I see :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 08:01, September 27, 2015 (UTC) : :o —TimeMaster (talk • ) 19:58, September 27, 2015 (UTC) Results These results have been authorised by Tagpol. *Conservative Tagogese Party - 12 seats *Independent Tagog - 2 seats *Party for Moderate Development - 1 seat --Semyon 09:11, September 30, 2015 (UTC) Independent Tagog is outraged that the insidious PMD is still allowed to exist, but respects these results due to their infallability. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 23:16, October 1, 2015 (UTC) SAKAR A TAGOG Glory to the TCP! FictiveJ (talk) 00:01, October 1, 2015 (UTC) (aka UE) TCP Why is the TCP TUMPH certified? Should we create propaganda free versions of their pages (Tagogese Communist Party, Gerald Smith, Jim Jones), delete of them (my preference), or neither? Also, why are the leaders' names so boring and so western? Perhaps they're cover names? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 17:39, February 4, 2018 (UTC) :If you read the article's history, they are cover names. But their propaganda makes me suspicious and fearful: it seems they were plotting to overthrow the government. We shouldn't allow such rebellion in the brightness of Tagog. We should keep the propaganda sections, as censorship is highly undemocratic, but ensure they are marked so. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:02, February 5, 2018 (UTC) This is a wiki, so we should only be keeping the patriotic and thus accurate versions visible at first glance to users. Perhaps propaganda could at least be moved to the talk pages, which are for speech? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:15, February 5, 2018 (UTC) :Possibly. I have written some democratic, truthful information on two articles concerning the TCP. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:17, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Okay. You should do the same for Gerald's page, though. And is it correct that TCP no longer exists? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:19, February 5, 2018 (UTC) I would assume so, since the only two members were both exiled to Brunant. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:20, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Is the reason there were only two members because the citizenry of Tagog is exceptionally loyal to the rightful leaders of the country? How old was the TCP when it de facto disbanded? You might expect it to have been created by supporters of Benedict John, if we can agree that he was Soviet-aligned. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:30, February 5, 2018 (UTC) I don't know. The TCP out-of-universe was created on September 24, 2015. But I think that the Soviet alignment might work. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:31, February 5, 2018 (UTC) In that case it would be weird for it to last 29 years (44+, counting John's rule, if we make him a member of the party), though. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:33, February 5, 2018 (UTC) :What do you mean by that? Presumably there were communists in Tagog before then. I sort of imagined a communist newspaper, being distributed in secret. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:34, February 5, 2018 (UTC) I mean that it would be weird to last that long with two members and then be successfully liquidated in 2015 following decades of existence. Also, TCP had some interactions up until 2017. Perhaps the liquidation date should be moved forward to March 2017 or later (or now, as part of a surge in patriotic activity following the defeat of the coup?). —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:38, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Well, the leaders were exiled to Brunant in 2015, maybe they still existed, but without a leader. What do you mean by 'interactions to 2017'? MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:41, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Goodluck Wuya was accused of harassing the TUMPH certified TCP in February 2017. The situation is just weird though. Why were they so disjoint from the Free Alliance, for example? Did they consider the FA reactionary scum? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:43, February 5, 2018 (UTC) :Er, probably. I think they're not leftist enough for the TCP. Also, the TCP were certified, so long as they ceased in their plans to overthrow Kanto Qyto. Maybe there was a new leader? MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 01:46, February 5, 2018 (UTC) But communists generally seem to want to overthrow the current government. So why would TCP be TUMPH certified, but not FA, especially if the TCP held even more unpatriotic views than the FA, at least in terms of economics? As for a new leader, it all just feels weird. I think TCP should either be deleted or dramatically reworked in history. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 01:52, February 5, 2018 (UTC) I don't know why they are TUMPH certified, you'd have to ask Semyon. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 03:03, February 5, 2018 (UTC) They are an authoritarian left-wing party, as the name suggests. Therefore, their approach to politics is very similar to the CTP. It's interesting (though coincidental) to notice the parallels with Russian politics: CTP = United Russia, PMD = Liberal Democratic Party, TCP = Communist Party, FA = Navalny. Only the last is persecuted in each case, because that's the only only one that seriously aspires to topple the regime. --Semyon 08:15, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Wouldn't PMD be A Just Russia and IT be the Liberal Democratic Party? I noticed the same thing but thought that. However, in Russia's case the TCP doesn't oppose in the government in more than a few empty words, whereas they seem(ed) to actively want to overthrow the government here, which makes them more dissimilar to Russia's communists. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 12:23, February 5, 2018 (UTC) @A Just Russia: yes, you're right. @TCP: it's impossible to say what Jeffwang and Topaz intended with the party, because it was clearly totally frivolous. It was partly in that spirit that they were certified. I personally think it makes more sense for them to be certified. --Semyon 13:45, February 5, 2018 (UTC) To be honest, I don't really share this attitude of trying to rationalise the Tagogese history. Everything on this wiki is lies, regardless of whether it was written by me, you, Topaz, Horton, or anyone else. Thus, I don't consider that there is an objective RealHistory™ which can be distilled from it. You mention Benedict John, but I have only a vague idea who he is. I have read through the official history on maybe one or two occasions, but I don't consider it worthwhile to pay it any serious attention. --Semyon 13:54, February 5, 2018 (UTC) :Which reminds me that you really need to read 1984. I need to reread it, tbh. --Semyon 13:57, February 5, 2018 (UTC) @Lies: sounds unpatriotic to me. :o @TCP: But their names were changed for unpatriotic frivolity. Maybe we can rework them to oppose the Tagogese government less, explaining their certification? @Rationalization: It should at least make sense to patriotic citizens, though. Benedict John is the dictator overthrown by Qyto's forces of democracy in 1986, later lured back to the country with an offer of a position and then executed. @1984: Agreed. Already spoiled the whole plot for myself, though. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 14:26, February 5, 2018 (UTC) @rationalisation: I totally disagree. :P @plot: I don't think it's relevant, but we already discussed this. Out of interest, have you never read a book twice? --Semyon 15:21, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Why do you disagree? I've read several twice, but I'm saying that I already know stuff about how the country controls its people, etc. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 17:30, February 5, 2018 (UTC) @disagree: you should read 1984. @1984: to make an analogy, you wouldn't refuse to read research publications on the grounds that the important stuff gets put onto Wikipedia. --Semyon 17:46, February 5, 2018 (UTC) I might, though. I hate reading research papers, they put me to sleep. @1984: But what does have to do with stuff like TCP being TUMPH certified and unpatriotic propaganda being on lots of pages? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 18:03, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Yes, sure, and I would sometimes take advantage of Wikipedia's summaries too, but the point I'm making is that reading the plot on Wikipedia is not a substitute for reading the book itself. @1984: it discusses authoritarianism in relation to concepts like truth and history which are relevant here. --Semyon 18:38, February 5, 2018 (UTC) Isn't history being altered to suit the state perfectly in those cases, though? I don't see that being done here with regards to the TCP, etc. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 18:57, February 5, 2018 (UTC) :Yes, but the deeper point of the book is the debasement of truth ('doublethink'). As I said, I totally disagree that the history 'should at least make sense to patriotic citizens', because patriotic citizens should not be concerning themselves with such things in the first place. --Semyon 18:11, February 6, 2018 (UTC) :Wouldn't the Tagogese want to at least make sure that citizens get a sense-making version of history, just to be safe? Which seems more like the real world Soviet/Chinese way of doing it. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 21:33, February 6, 2018 (UTC) I agree with the similarities to Russian politics: Qyto is just a recoloured Putin at the end of it all. Furthermore, it's not 'lies', it's 'alternative facts'. :P MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 21:47, February 5, 2018 (UTC) :@Putin: A little bit, yeah. Though obviously Tagog is grossly exaggerated. --Semyon 18:11, February 6, 2018 (UTC) :Why are you insulting the Tagogese nation :'( —TimeMaster (talk • ) 21:33, February 6, 2018 (UTC) ::It's true. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 21:51, February 6, 2018 (UTC)